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Trout
Average Member
USA
170 Posts |
 Posted - 08/18/2012 : 12:16:24 AM
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Hi Ed, and anyone else with definitive info: I have owned land in MS since 2007 and I have purchased a hunting license each year. In reviewing the mdwfp publication it states very briefly that a license is not required for hunting if an individual holds the deed to the land. Does that mean you can hunt deer on land in MS without a license if you are the landowner? I know my question seems redundant but its hard to b
Rodney Hesson |
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ed mcintyre
Administrator
USA
6850 Posts |
Posted - 08/18/2012 : 4:18:35 PM
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the question that I would have is how the law is written, if it says resident landowner or if it just says landowner, and if you were a tenant in common with someone else, if the deed read I sell, convey and warrant unto Tom Hines, Joe Puckett and Fred Measells the below described land, I would think that you would need a license because you did not own 100 percent of it. now, I would find out who my local Game Warden was and talk to him about it and if I were the sole owner I would have a certified copy of my deed with me.
when i die bury me deep, put a bucket of bait at my feet, put a rod and reel in my hand and i will fish my way to the promised land !!!! remember we did not inherit these resources from our parents, we are merely borrowing them from our children |
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Capt Ron
Senior Member
USA
484 Posts |
Posted - 08/18/2012 : 6:20:29 PM
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Rodney, Can you refer me to the publication and page number so I can check that out too? If you are correct, that is big/good news to me!
"Get busy living or get busy dying" from Shawshank Redemption |
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Trout
Average Member
USA
170 Posts |
Posted - 08/18/2012 : 11:37:48 PM
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Hey Ron, no problem, and thanks Ed. Ron, the publication is Mississippi Outdoor Digest 2011-2012 (MDWFP publication), page 10 under title "hunting license." Ed, I am the sole owner and own a home in MS. I am going to follow up with a game warden but they are rare in this area.
Rodney Hesson |
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Frank Martin
Average Member
USA
300 Posts |
Posted - 08/19/2012 : 09:39:58 AM
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| My buddy told me one day that his Dad didn't have to buy a liscence to hunt on his property in MS.; I told him he was full of it but reading this he might be telling me the truth? |
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Trout
Average Member
USA
170 Posts |
Posted - 08/19/2012 : 12:15:51 PM
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I do think it warrants a conversation with a game warden and you had better have a clear deed on your person basically treat the deed like a license. I would also keep the ms statute with you too. Having the statute stated by mdwfp as recent as 2012 should help.
Rodney Hesson |
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Capt Ron
Senior Member
USA
484 Posts |
Posted - 08/20/2012 : 09:40:23 AM
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Trout, I read the section in question and it seems pretty clear to me that it is referring to Mississippi residents only. I too bought land in Mississippi(Wilkinson county) in 2007, but I honestly don't believe that section of the rules pertains to you and me. 
"Get busy living or get busy dying" from Shawshank Redemption |
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Outsideallthetime
Administrator
1855 Posts |
Posted - 08/25/2012 : 11:11:01 AM
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As a former MS Dept of Wildlife Fisheries and Parks Conservation Officer in the Law Enforcement Division, I was trained to NOT issue a citation if a landowner hunted his property without a current and valid hunting license with NO REGARD as to if he was a resident or a non-resident. If I ran across a man and his son hunting and they said "Oh, we are the landowners" then I may question if they were BOTH listed on the deed but I would not demand seeing a copy of it. There is the "letter of the law" and the "spirit of the law" that comes into consideration when enforcing the law.
I don't remember running across this situation very often as most folks buy a license even if they hunt land they own because most of us understand the importance of buying a license and most of us do not confine our hunting activities to just "our" land. This situation also arises concerning a non-resident harvest of an antler-less deer. The letter of the law stated that a non-resident would have to own the land or his name be on the lease. Well, most clubs that lease land have the name of the club as the lease-holder. How many of us have a document as a club member that "states" our name as a club member?
If someone approached me when I was an officer and asked if they could hunt their property without a license, my answer was "sure you can but why wouldn't you want to buy a license?" Probably checking with your local Conservation Officer would be wise to see how he interprets and enforces the rule!
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Frank Martin
Average Member
USA
300 Posts |
Posted - 08/26/2012 : 09:32:20 AM
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| Looks like you had to deal with a lot of loop holes on this situation!!!! |
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Capt Ron
Senior Member
USA
484 Posts |
Posted - 08/27/2012 : 10:23:49 AM
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OATT, that is really interesting! So as a property tax paying non- resident Mississippi landowner, I am not REQUIRED to buy a hunting license to hunt on my land? I can choose to purchase the licenses if I want to, in the "spirit" of wanting to buy a license. How does this interpretation extend to turkeys, primitive weapon permit, etc.? If I am not MANDATED or REQUIRED to buy a hunting license, can I choose to not purchase a primitive weapons permit as well? I pay well over $400 to comply with the "spirit" of the law. I just want to get things straight. I also pay well over $1000 in property tax every year. I'm not crying, just curious.
"Get busy living or get busy dying" from Shawshank Redemption |
Edited by - Capt Ron on 08/27/2012 10:15:25 PM |
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Outsideallthetime
Administrator
1855 Posts |
Posted - 08/27/2012 : 11:00:10 PM
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The original question concerned buying a license "to hunt deer" but if you buy that "all game" license in MS you are covered for small and large game and then you add the primitive license. So, if you don't need a license on land you own for deer, you won't need one for a squirrel. Another tricky part is federally enforced game like doves, waterfowl and crows. There was no (and maybe still not)any federal verbiage that stated you can take those species on your property without proper license. But MY local conservation officer now says though crows are federally enforced, HIS supervisor has told him he darned-well better not show up with a bunch of crow cases! Let the folks shoot 'em!
The concept of "the letter vs the spirit of the law" is a concept taught in law enforcement and is adopted differently by each officer. Another great example is the speed limit. The speed limit on 2 lane MS highways (not interstates) is 55 mph. Recently I asked a couple of MS Highway Patrol officers if they had an enforcement threshold on our local highways. One said "I write you at 7 miles over" and the other said "I give ya 9 and write you at 10 mph over the posted speed." Then one said "but we have 2 guys that write you at the letter...." I met a trooper and he stopped me and I knew that he was new. He said he clocked me at 68 mph in a 55 mph zone. I apologized for speeding and asked what his threshold was and he said "the guys at MDOT took the time to post signs so I enforce the posted speed"....he was enforcing the letter of the law. The guys mentioned earlier enforce "the spirit of the law", which is something like "as long as you are not being dangerous and crazy we let you have some slack"!
The local judges spent many hours working with me sharing what they considered to be important. An example was a littering ticket I wrote when a guy threw a soda bottle out and hit my truck. When we got to court the judge asked "Well, how big a truckload of trash did he dump out?" When I responded with my answer he chuckled and said "Case DISMISSED!!" Officer, let's go catch some REAL criminals......
SO Capt. Ron, you actually pay to comply with the "letter of the law". But many of us expect you to pay as an ethical hunter, including many enforcement officers. I just tried to stay away from confrontation and tried to educate versus enforce when things became gray versus black and white. An officer may give you some slack due to his interpretation of "the spirit of the law" and why it was written. I hope this helps! Please excuse the "war stories"; they are endless! As an avid outdoorsman, I love the discussions, sharing and debate that go on especially here on RnR!!
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Outsideallthetime
Administrator
1855 Posts |
Posted - 08/27/2012 : 11:07:01 PM
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An addendum to this point concerning the federally enforced species is that a Conservation Officer had the choice to enforce State or Federal rules, regulations, statutes and the like. So a State officer may not enforce hunting on your land via State law but if you had a particularly bad-attitude as a landowner the officer could write you a Federal ticket for the same hunting activity which was a WHOLE bunch more trouble for the hunter!!
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Frank Martin
Average Member
USA
300 Posts |
Posted - 08/28/2012 : 09:59:01 AM
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| After reading all of this it comes down to the attitude of the landowner and how he hunts his property still seems like a lot of loop holes here!!!!! |
Edited by - Frank Martin on 08/28/2012 09:59:50 AM |
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Outsideallthetime
Administrator
1855 Posts |
Posted - 08/28/2012 : 2:21:22 PM
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Most law enforcement officers can tell you that a person can talk themselves into a citation way easier than talk themselves out of one.......
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Frank Martin
Average Member
USA
300 Posts |
Posted - 08/28/2012 : 2:52:05 PM
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| Can we get a "like" button on here? |
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ed mcintyre
Administrator
USA
6850 Posts |
Posted - 08/28/2012 : 10:52:13 PM
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herein lies the biggest problem, if you do not get a license and the State Supreme court decides that since you are a non-resident landowner and you have killed a couple of deer and the deer meat is in your freezer at your home in Louisiana you are now guilty of violating the Lacy Act and that is a Federal law
when i die bury me deep, put a bucket of bait at my feet, put a rod and reel in my hand and i will fish my way to the promised land !!!! remember we did not inherit these resources from our parents, we are merely borrowing them from our children |
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Capt Ron
Senior Member
USA
484 Posts |
Posted - 08/28/2012 : 10:59:50 PM
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OATT, thank you for one of the most informative discussions I have seen on the forum. I certainly am aware of why we buy hunting and fishing licenses; Enforcement, research, compliance, management areas, education, etc.. The list of services that license fees support is indeed very long. But, I was curious as I had not heard anything about this before. I had always thought that non-resident Mississippi property owners should pay less for license fees than non-resident non-property owners because we also pay sizable property taxes. I agree that the attitude we display to enforcement agents is very important as well. Just some very good info here!
OATT, I really like the war stories; keep em coming!
"Get busy living or get busy dying" from Shawshank Redemption |
Edited by - Capt Ron on 08/28/2012 11:03:07 PM |
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ed mcintyre
Administrator
USA
6850 Posts |
Posted - 09/02/2012 : 2:43:52 PM
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" I had always thought that non-resident Mississippi property owners should pay less for license fees than non-resident non-property owners because we also pay sizable property taxes. I agree that the attitude we display to enforcement agents is very important as well. Just some very good info here!
OATT, I really like the war stories; keep em coming!" Ron, none of your property taxes go to the Department of Wildlife, Fisheries and Parks. Those monies go to support County Government, Welfare, Roads, Salaries for up and coming bureaucrats etc. now if you have over 40 acres and you have timber growing on it you should be taxed at the rate of Agricultural land. as long as you make about $40 per acre per year you get the lower rate. Check and see at the Tax Assesor's office how your property is classified
when i die bury me deep, put a bucket of bait at my feet, put a rod and reel in my hand and i will fish my way to the promised land !!!! remember we did not inherit these resources from our parents, we are merely borrowing them from our children |
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Capt Ron
Senior Member
USA
484 Posts |
Posted - 09/04/2012 : 7:33:41 PM
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Ed, I didn't say I shouldn't pay any license fees being a non-resident property owner. But, I do think $400+ to hunt is too steep for a property owner.
"Get busy living or get busy dying" from Shawshank Redemption |
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Outsideallthetime
Administrator
1855 Posts |
Posted - 09/04/2012 : 8:30:14 PM
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Well then......I got an answer from MY local Conservation Officer concerning this issue. He said that he was trained and enforces the law in that "this must be your DOMICILE" in order to qualify for hunting without a license.
Capt Ron, it has always been the policy of the wildlife folks to enforce the laws the Commission of Wildlife Fisheries and Parks create along with the Legislature (both House and Senate) of the State of MS. The FEES charged are RECIPROCAL and are based on what our NEIGHBORING STATES charge.......think about that one a minute or two.
Hope to hear that all are doing well and ISAAC can kiss it!
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ed mcintyre
Administrator
USA
6850 Posts |
Posted - 09/04/2012 : 10:20:03 PM
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Ron, I lived in Buras for a few years and after looking at what other states would charge me if I were a Louisiana Resident, I kept my Mississippi Residency. It is a whole lot cheaper to pay $90 per year to fish Saltwater than it would be to pay $400 to hunt Texas, Arkansas, Alabama etc. also I would pay $90 per year to fish Texas, Alabama and Florida instead of $32 for each state. maybe you need to establish Mississippi Residency.
when i die bury me deep, put a bucket of bait at my feet, put a rod and reel in my hand and i will fish my way to the promised land !!!! remember we did not inherit these resources from our parents, we are merely borrowing them from our children |
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Trout
Average Member
USA
170 Posts |
Posted - 09/07/2012 : 11:18:25 AM
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Thanks for the informative replies. As a land/home owner in MS, I think there should be another license that is less costly than the non-resident, or at least allow for purchase of the resident license. MDWFP will lose some revenue by allowing land owners to opt-out of a license but it would be marginal. I aint switchin to MS residency cuz I'm a coon arz for betta or for worse! As far as the "spirit" of paying license fees to promote conservation and to provide revenue for enforcement and research, that dog stopped hunting and died long ago (well not that long ago). The license fees and multiple fees tacked on that drive the costs higher than ever, used to fund these items. However, governors and legislators now rob the "General Fund" and take our conservation dollars and apply them to anything they choose. They almost never choose conservation. The fees have become a hidden BS tax. That is where the "spirit" has gone, in my humble opinion. But, I'm sure I will buy the license to avoid the realization that my opinion means nada in a court room!
Rodney Hesson |
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Outsideallthetime
Administrator
1855 Posts |
Posted - 09/08/2012 : 8:52:58 PM
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TROUT,
I NEVER mentioned buying a license concerning "the Spirit" of buying a license. Buying a license is the ONLY "ethical" thing to do if one hunts and fishes. Don't let me confuse you or anyone else concerning THAT!
Otherwise concerning your post, you are either a RESIDENT or a NON-RESIDENT in EVERY state in the union concerning many more issues, rights and privileges than hunting and fishing........and that's the way it is. It's not a MS vs LA thing!
Heck, I hunt and fish in MANY states and I pay the stated fees. I guess THAT comes down to "paying to play" versus "paying the fines".
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Outsideallthetime
Administrator
1855 Posts |
Posted - 09/08/2012 : 9:06:26 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by ed mcintyre
Ron, I lived in Buras for a few years and after looking at what other states would charge me if I were a Louisiana Resident, I kept my Mississippi Residency. It is a whole lot cheaper to pay $90 per year to fish Saltwater than it would be to pay $400 to hunt Texas, Arkansas, Alabama etc. also I would pay $90 per year to fish Texas, Alabama and Florida instead of $32 for each state. maybe you need to establish Mississippi Residency.
when i die bury me deep, put a bucket of bait at my feet, put a rod and reel in my hand and i will fish my way to the promised land !!!! remember we did not inherit these resources from our parents, we are merely borrowing them from our children
ED, if you "lived in Buras for a few years" and did not change your residency, as you stated, then YOU defrauded LA and any other state you gained a fishing or hunting license from or hunted and/or fished in. It is a felony to apply for, gain or hunt with a license that false information is used to procure a license OR participate in that activity.
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Outsideallthetime
Administrator
1855 Posts |
Posted - 09/08/2012 : 9:10:15 PM
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Also, check your state statutes concerning "establishing a residence in order to hunt or fish".........that may be something you DON'T want to do! 
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Outsideallthetime
Administrator
1855 Posts |
Posted - 09/10/2012 : 9:28:45 PM
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Hmmm. Things got QUIET on this thread...............
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do I need a big game license to hunt my land in ms
