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Lookidat
Senior Member
USA
599 Posts |
 Posted - 06/27/2012 : 07:23:41 AM
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Dang marco, you make some very good points! I got nuthin! So it sounds like you supported Arizona's efforts?
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marco
Average Member
USA
303 Posts |
Posted - 06/27/2012 : 10:21:58 PM
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@Lookidat, yep I agree with Arizona's efforts to an extent. I disagree with going after the illegals themselves as an effective method because when you send them back across the border they keep coming back because they know there are jobs waiting for them. In other words, it doesn't work and cost a ton of money. Go after the businesses that hire illegals and watch the illegals self deport themselves. No tearing apart families. No need to build more detention centers. No need to hire more Border Agents. No need to pass any more immigration laws (we need to enforce the ones on our books).
There is a misconception in that they come here solely for government benefits. It is just extra gravy. Government benefits cannot be sent back home in the form of remittances. Illegals, Mexicans in particular, send billions of dollars annually back home to their families as remittances. We are talking about 20+ billion dollars annually and climbing and this is US dollars leaving our country that that does not get invested back into the US economy in the form of sales and sales taxes.
When the US economy tanked due to the banking crisis, illegal immigration quickly trended downward to the point of equalizing with outbound immgration. There were less jobs and illegal immigration into the country slowed down all on its own.
@John C, thanks for sending me those crumbs. I gobbled them up like there was no tomorrow....lol..!!!
This is the roofing company that replaced my roof.
Slidell Roofing, Inc.
3842 Oxford Street
Slidell, LA 70458
(985) 643-4767
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Lookidat
Senior Member
USA
599 Posts |
Posted - 06/28/2012 : 07:22:04 AM
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I just hate it when a liberal makes sense!
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Lookidat
Senior Member
USA
599 Posts |
Posted - 06/28/2012 : 09:36:15 AM
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Well, there you have it. This country is officially screwed. Obamacare ruled constitutional. What a farce! Watch the stock market respond, bet it tanks. And so much for the "impartial Supreme Court"! It is going to take revolution for this country to get back on the right track. The "takers" have officially overwhelmed the "makers". If this doesn't get the conservatives galvanized,to get rid of Obama, nothing will!
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zzydeco
Senior Member
USA
522 Posts |
Posted - 06/28/2012 : 12:11:32 PM
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The health insurance companies stock is going up and up. Maybe is the sale of anti-acid tablets and prilosec to the Tea baggers. Chief Justice Roberts, what a liberal he turned out to be.
I don't have a bucket list but my f-ucket list is a mile long. |
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marco
Average Member
USA
303 Posts |
Posted - 06/28/2012 : 10:32:22 PM
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The Affordable Care Act has passed many challenges and the ultimate Supreme Court Challenge. It is a big step and now that it is law we should all get behind it and stop complaining.
I will say again, as I said before, that this health care law is not perfect. No single party ideology can pass perfect legislation. Lets roll with what works and improve what isn't. It is not the Democratic or Republican thing to do. It is the American thing to do.
God Bless America!!!
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marco
Average Member
USA
303 Posts |
Posted - 06/29/2012 : 07:48:32 AM
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Many well known medical and national organizations have endorsed ACA from the very beginning. Here is just a sampling:
AIDS in Action
Abundant Children and Family Services
American Cancer Society
American Family Voices
American Heart Association
American Medical Association
American Medical Student Association
American Academy of Family Physicians
American Nurses Association
American Academy of Pediatrics
Association of American Medical Colleges
Center for Science in the Public Interest
Center for Rural Affairs
Consumer Reports
Child Advocate Network
Health Care for the 21st Century
HIV Medicine Association
National Alliance of State and Territorial AIDS Directors
National Alliance of Professional Psychology Providers
National Association of School Based Health Care
National Association of Social Workers (NASW)
National Cervical Cancer Coalition
National Consumers League
National Counsel of Jewish Women
National Institute for Reproductive Health
National Partnership for Women and Families
National Physicians Alliance
National Organization for Rare Diseases
National Womens' Health Network
March of Dimes
Physicians for Reproductive Choice and Health
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drreb
Advanced Member
USA
902 Posts |
Posted - 07/02/2012 : 09:34:45 AM
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| Does anyone find it strange that the ACA has been classified as a tax? No one, and I mean No one in the admin ever discussed this as a tax, and in fact, made several statements that this was not a tax. But now??? BTW, if the mandated insurance cost per person is $1000.00/mo and the penalty for not having the insurance is &700.00/yr, who do you think goes out and buys the mandated insurance? Interesting set of changes are on the way but I`m not sure what they will be. I will agree with marco on one main thing though....may God bless America |
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zzydeco
Senior Member
USA
522 Posts |
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marco
Average Member
USA
303 Posts |
Posted - 07/02/2012 : 11:18:40 PM
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I don't care what they call it. Make everybody pay for their health coverage in some form or fashion. Your health cost is your responsibility. Isn't that the Republican mantra? You are right in that nobody ever called this a tax not even the Republicans themselves who conceived the individual health insurance mandate in the first place. If this was an obvious tax, then how come nobody called it out way before the case made it to the Supreme Court? How come the Republicans did not use the tax argument before SCOTUS? Or maybe because it is really a penalty?
Yes, personal responsibility is a b***** when it comes back to bite you.
And yes, things like the Affordable Care Act to promote the general welfare of citizens are the types of laws the founding fathers of this country had in mind. In fact, they felt that the general welfare of this country was so important that they explicitly mentioned it in the preamble of the US Constitution.
"We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."
I agree 100% with Republicans when they say we should stick to what the founding fathers had in mind. Promote the general welfare and establish a more perfect union as opposed to a bunch of states fending for themselves with a hodgepodge of different state health care laws.
Our health care crisis is too big for any individual state. It can only be addressed as a nation.
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drreb
Advanced Member
USA
902 Posts |
Posted - 07/03/2012 : 08:49:48 AM
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zzydeco, Call your local BC/BS agent and ask what a healthcare policy for a family of 4 costs per mo, then ask about a single policy just on yourself. If it comes in under $1000.00/mo, I`ll be surprised. Some of these policies have a $5000.00 deductable and then a co-pay before they pay a cent toward anyone`s bill. Really, that is no insurance at all for a healthy person because you won`t spend $5000.00 yearly on routine healthcare. Now, this "penalty" or "tax", or whatever, according to Sec Sybyllius(sp) will be in the range of $700.00-$750.00 if you refuse to buy the insurance. That makes no sense at all, unless you are trying to drive everyone toward a single payor insurance company(read that government healthcare). Whatever it is, it is, and I really have lost interest in attempting to rationally discuss this railroad job with people who should understand enough about business to see big, big flaws in the thing. As far as I`m concerned, it`s a done deal and the American poeple have no idea what they just walked into.
marco, You are absolutely correct about everybody needing to pay something into the system, and mandating health insurance seems to be a good idea...but, here in Miss we have a law that says to get a driver`s license and car tag, one must show proof of auto insurance. People go buy the insurance, get a reciept, get their license and tag, then call and cancel their insurance the same day. People are not stupid and they will get around any mandate to buy health insurance in similar ways. Oh, and I`m not exactly clear about this "promote the general welfare" statement in the constitution. Does that mean the government must pay for a person`s poor choices in how to spend their money? If I have the money to buy insurance for myself, but would rather spend it on a 4S iPhone with 100 apps, does that obligate the government to pay for the insurance for me? Man, "promote the general welfare" covers almost anything doesn`t it? Whatever, I think it is a done deal, a bad deal, and the American people are about to find out a lot of stuff about government control they have never understood before. BTW, check out what is happening in Greece. |
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zzydeco
Senior Member
USA
522 Posts |
Posted - 07/03/2012 : 11:38:24 AM
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Forget Greece look what happened in Pompeii. It has the same relevance to what is happening here. None.
I don't have a bucket list but my f-ucket list is a mile long. |
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Lookidat
Senior Member
USA
599 Posts |
Posted - 07/03/2012 : 1:26:27 PM
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drreb, great post, but you are pi$$in up a rope trying to get zzydeco to understand that logic. Hopefully, this will galvanize the electorate to get rid of Obama. zzydeco, if this plan is so good, why did congress exempt themselves from participating? (Along with most major unions, imagine that!) Oh yea, because they have the best health care in the country, at OUR expense, and this is strictly for the pions. Do you really think that Princess Pelosi, or retard Reid, or DOHbama would have pushed this through if they themselves had to live with it? Of course not! All I'm saying is you and everybody else seem content to drink the kool-aid, while the "leaders" of the country stand by, sipping perrier. Tell you what, when they get their sorry a$$e$ in the front of the line, call me. Otherwise, they can shove it!
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zzydeco
Senior Member
USA
522 Posts |
Posted - 07/03/2012 : 2:31:26 PM
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Where you been Lookidat? Congress is not exempt except that they have the same healthcare plan like most of us. Nothing fancy about it since its just a choice of plans provided by Blue Cross, Etna, etc. Its under the federal health insurance program that the Office of Personel Management negotiates every year. You can research that on the internet like I just did. I have not seen any Republicans elected official give up their health insurance in disgust. Every one has their own opinions but your distrust and rage against government is totally out of proportion with the facts. But facts have not gotten in your way before so carry on. I fully understand logic when I see it. I will let you know when it appears in any of your rants.
I don't have a bucket list but my f-ucket list is a mile long. |
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marco
Average Member
USA
303 Posts |
Posted - 07/03/2012 : 11:17:15 PM
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Lookidat, drreb's post was terrible. The part about people buying car insurance and then canceling it is a moot point. No law can make people honest or law abiding. It just means that some people don't want to participate in a civilized society. That is a problem in every country regardless of the system of government.
Lets take the laws governing gun ownership that every Republican bubba should be familiar with. There are extensive laws for governance of firearms. Unfortunately, like auto insurance, there are always some people that will not follow gun laws and in the case of firearms they will obtain, sell, or use them illegaly. Does that mean we should punish the law abiding gun owners as well and/or throw all guns laws out? drreb may think somebody gaming auto insurance laws as not stupid and even smart but to me they are cheats and low life scum because they cause those that do pay, like you and me, to pay even higher insurance premiums.
With that said, there will always be people who do not want to take responsibility for their own health care regardless if the health care laws are Republican or Democratic because you cannot legislate perfection. What we had was driving our country down the road to bankruptcy.
If Republicans are going to complain about the free health care most government officials are getting, then why aren't their elected Republican officials declining their freebies in protest as zzydeco mentioned?
As I pointed out, many well known medical and national associations have gotten behind ACA and companies are already making plans to transition to the new laws. Only the Republicans are still trying to live in the past. This law is personal for me even though I pay for my health insurance through my employer. My wife has always had medical issues because of traits in her family and I am relieved knowing she won't be denied coverage if I was laid off and needed to switch insurance companies. The same for my son when he goes to college in the near future. I can keep him on my family insurance plan while he studies for his civil engineering degree which is his goal.
If Republicans really cared about the citizens of this country, and not just the %1 and corporate america, then they would work with the rest of Congress and over time fix those parts of the ACA that are not working. The ACA exercised our system of government as the founding fathers intended. Congress legislated, President signed the bill into law, and the Supreme Court interpreted and upheld the law. What part of democracy do you Republicans do not understand? |
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Lookidat
Senior Member
USA
599 Posts |
Posted - 07/05/2012 : 08:05:19 AM
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marco and zzydeco, first of all, your point about Repubs not backing away from their golden insurance is well taken. I agree that none of them, nor Dems, or even the Tea Party candidates seem ready to stand up and take a stand here if it is going to impact them directly. Now, due to several comments from you and others, I took it upon myself to download the ACA to research this point. On first glance, it appears that they (congress) will be participating in the program, however, the entire ACA is filled with exemptions and substitutions, so it will take someone smarter than myself to actually decipher the truth. But for the sake of argument, let's say that they will be participating. BTW, they will still be receiving the golden package, which is better than any insurance or healthcare you and I have. Anyway, if they do so, will they be subject to the additional tax that is to be levied on those "rich" people with golden policies?
Now, are ya'll just ignoring reports that the cost of this program will be more than double than projected? Or that it will call for a huge increase in, not doctors, but IRS agents and other bureaucratic jobs? Government jobs? This at a time when studies have shown that 50% of Americans are receiving some sort of government assistance? 50 freakin percent! I don't have a banking background, but even I know that we cannot sustain that type of ratio. The "takers" have officially bankrupted the "makers" of this country. And yet, the Democrats response is to create more of a reliance on government. Here is what about to happen in this country. Mark it down, and later you can tell people that a dumb ole redneck from Ms predicted it.
Obama is probably going to win in October. Why? Because he is going to carry all of the "blue" states occupied by the "takers", which also happen to carry the most electorial votes. Romney will win the popular vote, but it won't matter. (If you don't believe me, go to your own news source, Communist News Network, and click on the electorial vote map. It must be true, because CNN would never lie, right?)Once he is a lame-duck president, he is going to spend the next four years expanding the democratic "take from the rich and give to the poor" programs until 75% or more of the country is dependent on the government, at which the "makers" are going to throw up their hands, and head for other places that are more friendly to working people. Then all of the democratic "takers" are going to be left with no golden goose to steal from, and the country is going to collapse financially. Yea, great job there dems. Of course, they will blame it on the conservatives somehow.
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drreb
Advanced Member
USA
902 Posts |
Posted - 07/05/2012 : 08:19:21 AM
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| Marco, I understand democracy very well, in fact I would like to see one that worked well. As You know, we have a representative republic. As far as this ACA goes, I will say no more about it and I hope it works out well for everyone.....I just don`t think you or anyone else knows what all is about to change. Oh, BTW, the ACA is NOT the insurance supplied to congress and government employees. I treat several congressional wives and a few people from the Dept of State, and their insurance is no deductable and pays nearly 100% of charges. This ACA is NOT the same. I`ll be quiet now and we will await the great new affordable insurance plan supplied by the government who only has your best interest at heart. Keep up the faith. |
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Lookidat
Senior Member
USA
599 Posts |
Posted - 07/05/2012 : 12:58:34 PM
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marco:
"If the Republicans really cared about the citizens of this country, and not just the 1% and Corporate America.."
Okay marco, you and zzydeco always accuse me of being a blind follower of FOX, and not checking my facts, so here goes.
Do you even know who the so-called "1%ers" are? According to the IRS, anyone making around 300k per year, is a 1%er. That means that virtually every single elected official in Washington is a 1%er. EVERY SINGLE ONE, REPUBLICAN AND DEMOCRAT. And quite a few of them, Pelosi and Reid included, would fall into the "super-rich" category. Yet, when they are wailing about the "evil rich" America, they fail to include themselves. Why? Because they are using the "us against them" mentality to rally people to their side. I bet it didn't bother you when Al Gore was running that he had more money than God. You might say they are playing the economic card, the same way they constantly play the race card to pander to minorities. So, if I may offer you some of your own advice; quit lapping up the CNN propoganda at face value, and research your own info. Both CNN and FOX are at best marginally respectable as news outlets.
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zzydeco
Senior Member
USA
522 Posts |
Posted - 07/05/2012 : 1:58:50 PM
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Just to clarify. that "50% on the government dole" figure you cite includes both social security, Medicare recepients and unemployed folks. I can't stand those loafers on Social Security and Medicare. Just because they paid for it does not mean they should take it when its due. Those "Takers" are unAmerican. We should go with a modified plan like Sarah Palin's Old Age plan for a Free Alaska. When you are 65 they should take you out on the ice or in our case the marsh, and let the natural process take effect. 97.2% of statistic use by the right wing are made up. I just made that up and stand by it.
I don't have a bucket list but my f-ucket list is a mile long. |
Edited by - zzydeco on 07/05/2012 2:05:24 PM |
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Lookidat
Senior Member
USA
599 Posts |
Posted - 07/05/2012 : 2:15:21 PM
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I agree that the figures include Medicare, SSI and such. As far as unemployment, it is severely abused, and if I recall, Obama extended and increased it recently. As far as SSI, when the democrats decided that drug addiction was a "disease", and not a poor life choice, and started giving SSI to every dopehead that had a voter registration card, that started the demise of SSI. Same goes for the other moochers, the ones collecting SSI because they are nervous, or stressed, or they are too fat, or lazy, or otherwise damaged to work. Kick all of the freeloaders off, and there will be more than enough to go around. What's that I say? Make people take responsibility for their own lives? GASP! What a horrible thought! Not to mention how many voters would be offended, but then, if you are a leech on society, I say you forfeit your right to help in the decision-making of society. Regardless of the make-up of the "moochers", SSI was, I believe, established by a Democratic president, and was a good thing in it's original purpose. But when the number of takers exceeds the number of givers, the system is going to collapse.
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zzydeco
Senior Member
USA
522 Posts |
Posted - 07/05/2012 : 3:09:52 PM
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| I was speaking about SSA or Social Security, I was not commenting on SSI. There is a great difference between those 2 programs. I agree that there is more fraud in the SSI program but not when compared to the CWS. |
Edited by - zzydeco on 07/05/2012 3:17:19 PM |
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Lookidat
Senior Member
USA
599 Posts |
Posted - 07/05/2012 : 4:13:30 PM
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Dang zzydeco, this place is gonna get boring if we keep agreeing on stuff.
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zzydeco
Senior Member
USA
522 Posts |
Posted - 07/05/2012 : 6:09:32 PM
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I know. It's got me worried. The is no vaccine for the dark side yet. Maybe when Obamacare gets fully implemented.
I don't have a bucket list but my f-ucket list is a mile long. |
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GLYNN
Junior Member
88 Posts |
Posted - 07/06/2012 : 8:37:10 PM
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| I'll just be glad when obama is not reelected and the conservatives control the Senate also. |
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Lookidat
Senior Member
USA
599 Posts |
Posted - 07/09/2012 : 11:17:49 AM
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Glynn, I sympathize with you, but I am not nearly as optimistic as you. I am afraid that the numbers are going to be against the conservatives. Just this morning, Obama announced that he wants to extend the Bush tax cuts for those making less than 250k. This is an obvious ploy to win over independents, who he needs. While I personally am glad he is proposing this, it ain't nearly enough to buy my vote. After everything else he has done (or NOT done), he could cure cancer tomorrow and I wouldn't vote for him!
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It's Official; We now have a Dictatorship
